194: The Simple Way to Fix Your Sales Page Before Black Friday with Amy Hanneke

Speaker 2 (00:01.31)
Welcome to the systems and workflow magic podcast, where I help small business owners transform from feeling scattered to becoming streamlined in their creative businesses. I’m your host, Dolly DeLong, a wife, mom, believer, family photographer in systems workflow and launching educator. Now this podcast is your go-to resource for mastering the backend puzzle pieces of running a successful business.

Whether you’re just starting out or are an intermediate business owner looking to refine and elevate your systems, workflows, and operations, you’ll find practical strategies and advanced insights here to take your business to the next level. Each episode is designed to feel like a strategic mastermind session, guiding you through smarter launch planning, more efficient systems, and greater clarity in your business operations. Together,

We’ll explore how to organize, streamline, and grow your business with intention so you can achieve sustainable success without the overwhelm. I’ll also take you behind the scenes to uncover what it’s really like to run a business as a solo entrepreneur, sharing honest insights and actionable strategies. Plus, I’ll bring on expert guests who will share their advanced tips and proven methods

to help you unlock new levels of clarity and efficiency in your business. So are you ready to simplify your backend, elevate your operations and launch with purpose and confidence? Let’s dive in and create some strategic workflow magic.

Speaker 2 (01:45.332)
Hey everyone, this is Dolly from the Systems and Workflow Magic podcast. Thank you so much for being here. As you know, if you are listening in live, we are currently in our Black Friday series and you might be thinking, my goodness, it’s summer. Why are we talking about Black Friday, Dolly? You’re insane. But here’s the thing. If you are a small business owner, you should be slowly thinking about the end of Q3, Q4 marketing, especially if you want to do a Black Friday sale and

Please, please don’t wait until last minute, especially like the day before Thanksgiving or even the night of Thanksgiving you decide I’m gonna do a Black Friday sale. I want these episodes to serve as strategy sessions for you. So today’s strategy session is gonna be with Amy Hannecke.

and I am going to let her introduce herself to you. She is one of the 19 experts who will be speaking at the Black Friday Summit in August. And so I’m just so, so excited to have her on. Amy, do you mind introducing yourself to the audience, who you are, what you do, and yeah, why you’re here.

Yes, of course. Thank you so much for having me, Dolly. First of all, I’ve been so excited about this entire summit. So excited to on the podcast, but like Dolly said, my name is Amy Hanneke. I own Hello & Co. Creator, which is a copywriting studio. I focus on website copywriting, SEO, and messaging strategies. So I typically work with service-based business owners, but as we all know, in online business, that often does include courses, products, downloads.

memberships, retreats, like all the things. So all of the website things, including sales pages is really my jam.

Speaker 2 (03:31.726)
Awesome, and that’s what you’re gonna be talking about over our Black Friday Summit. You’re gonna be talking about sales pages, correct?

Yes, I am. I am going to be teaching how to do a little five-point sales page audit to help your page convert better. And there’s a lot of layers to it. I’m not gonna lie. For everyone listening, they told me I get 30 minutes. I’m a little nervous about cramming it all in 30 minutes because there’s a lot of content. but I hope it’s super, super helpful in getting your website ready for not only Black Friday, but year-round sales. That’s one of reasons I love websites is they exist all the time to help you sell.

So, yes, get it ready for Black Friday, but the benefit goes far beyond in that period of time.

And the reason why I asked you that specific question because like it’s, I’m so glad that you’re gonna be talking about that. And plus you’re like, I have it down as you’re the queen of making messaging and copy feel less intimidating. So especially when it comes to sales pages for Black Friday, why do you think so many small business owners over complicate this process?

Well, first of all, thank you for calling me the queen of making messaging less intimidating. I will accept that crown and I will wear it proudly. But I think one of the hardest things about writing your own website copy and about writing your own sales copy is often I will see people slip into two modes. They’re either being too casual and they forget to actually sell in their copy.

Speaker 1 (05:05.742)
or they’re coming on too strong with the sale and they’re forgetting to speak like a person. And then the copy comes out really like formulaic and almost it feels like you’re just reading like a bland bullet pointed list. So I feel like what’s hard is the doing both. And that’s where people get really in their heads about it.

Gotcha, do you think this is not on the question list, but I just thought of this. Do you think that’s why people, some business owners tend to put push aside their sales page then for Black Friday, because it’s just overwhelming and they’re like, I can just do this the month of. I can just do this a week before. Okay, I can just do this the night before.

Yeah, I think that there’s a lot of reasons that I think people do push off writing for their business. And one of them I definitely think is feeling intimidated by it because I don’t think any of us like to walk into a situation that we don’t find enjoyable and alone one that we find intimidating. So I think there’s that aspect of it. And then I think there’s also…

It feels really intimidating because you know there’s a lot to cover and you know that it’s really high stakes, but on a page it almost feels like you’re talking to yourself versus when people are selling on socials, DMs, things like that. Parts of it feel easier because we all have conversations day in and day out, but ultimately it is so much more work with less return because you’re having to manually remember everything.

and walk people through it in real time and even just the time factor of it, let alone the sales aspect of it is exhausting.

Speaker 2 (06:48.13)
This was like a perfect segue then into this next question. What would you say is the biggest missed opportunity you see on most sales pages? And we can just use Black Friday, for example.

Yeah, so I think it is that imbalance between connection and selling, like I was talking about. think, and this is one of the things that I am talking about in my presentation, is giving some of these tips for making sure you’re covering everything that you need to cover from a very objective content perspective, right? Like you need to talk about your offer, what it is, and what’s inside it.

but I’m also giving real life examples. actually have pulled in several screenshots of client sales pages that I’ve written and that amazing website designers have brought to life. So I can show you how to actually strike that balance between being a person and being a business owner, which I guess those aren’t mutually exclusive, but you know what I mean? Striking that tone between connecting and the selling and doing both in one page.

Gotcha. And let’s say someone listening in is like, okay, yes, I’ve been listening to this Black Friday series. Okay, you’ve convinced me. I’m gonna sell something for Black Friday. But my sales page still feels just like it’s a glorified information dump. Like I just dumped random information in this. How do I make sense of this? So what are two or three must have elements that can help?

the sales page actually convert from your experience.

Speaker 1 (08:20.192)
Yes. Okay. full disclosure, everyone listening, Dolly gave me this question ahead of time and narrowing it down was difficult. The biggest things, and I just finished auditing a website with several sales pages right before this call, so I feel ready for this. But one of the biggest things is the order of your sales page. So a lot of times what I will see people doing is coming in really hot with the logistics at the top of the page and

and talking about why someone would want the offer when we actually want to bring that in. Nobody listening can see this right now, but I’m like waving my hands wildly, but sure you had to do this. But I really want to see this engaging headline and more information about the problem that whoever it is, your reader, your ideal client, whatever you call them, the problem they’re having and the solution that you bring in. I want that up top in the page. And then I want you to introduce the how.

and put those logistics there. I want people to be emotionally bought in at the top of the page because they’re not going to financially buy in without that happening first. So one, I want the flow of the page to follow that. The second thing I always, always look for on a sales page in just, it’s something you can fix in literally probably like five minutes for your page. But if it’s a long page, you need to have a buy now button.

at least every three sections, if not every other section. After every main section, you should be giving people the opportunity to go ahead and take the action. Whether it’s book a call, join the program, sign up for the membership, whatever it is, buttons everywhere is one of the fastest ways you can improve your conversion rates. And then third is just making it skimmable, making sure your headings are really big, making sure that your bullet pointed lists are actually bullet pointed and easy to read.

You should be able to kind of glean the main information. And this is where everyone has that one friend or family member that just doesn’t get what they do. This is where that person comes in handy because they don’t know what you do. Ask them to skin your page and see if they can get all of that information out of it. You know, my dad skims everything for me because he has no idea what I do for a living. He still doesn’t know and he’s been the whole website. So like, this is the perfect and that’s a him thing for the record.

Speaker 2 (10:40.93)
He’s like, she works on the internet.

She does a website thing. He thinks that I know everything about every aspect of websites and it cracks me up. But… know, I know. He’s the best. Shout out to dad. But you know, that one person can really come in handy or even chat GPT can really come in handy here and saying, give me this page. Are you getting the essentials out of it? What am I missing? What questions would you have?

That one is mean dad.

Speaker 2 (11:06.22)
that that’s such good advice right there. Okay then what is your opinion between a long-form sales page versus a short and concise sales page because there are people in either they don’t care like me I don’t care you could have a long sales page you can have a short sales page but I tend to err like I say I don’t care but then I always end up creating a very long sales page because I want to hit up on all the points. From your

viewpoints, is there one type of sales page that is working better than the other or are they both converting well?

So it depends on what the product itself is or the offer that you’re selling is. For a higher ticket, basically the more money, the more complexity in your offer, the more you need to explain it in order for it to sell. So one example I’ll give is that I have website copywriting templates on my website. The page is structured like a product page. And when I say that, I want you to envision the last time you bought like a t-shirt, a pair of pants, whatever online, where it’s like a picture, add to cart.

There’s enough information, but it’s a pretty self-explanatory product. know what mean? And those pages work great because people, it’s a lower stakes decision. I’m not asking for recurring commitment. It’s literally, they’re $127, which is in the world of online business, a lower ticket offer. Those pages can work well with shorter content because people want to grab the thing and move on and use it. But when it comes to…

your higher ticket offers. And this is something I am, it is in my presentation. I show you examples of product pages and sales pages that work really well for this. But when it comes to a membership, a course, things like that, people are going to have more questions. They’re going to want more information. I do write long sales pages. And because I do that, I do think people are basically able to read the sales page. I liken it to a buffet where people are going to take what they want and need out of it. You want to make sure you

Speaker 1 (13:10.68)
have it. And then the biggest thing there is using the design to make sure it’s not a completely overwhelming page to scroll through. So again, I’m more in the copy room, but I did use to design websites. So I feel like I can confidently say both need to be in place to really make the page work. But for your higher ticket offers, a longer page is going to be more appropriate.

I want to give a huge shout out to our official Black Friday Summit 2025 sponsor, Cubicle to CEO. Hosted by the brilliant Ellen Yin, Cubicle to CEO is a globally charting top 10 business podcast for 1 million downloads. Ellen is known for asking successful founders and CEOs the business questions you cannot Google. So if you’re tired of surface level content and want real,

financially transparent data back strategies. This is a podcast for you. Cubicle to CEO has supported over 14,000 entrepreneurs through their educational products and live events. And I’m so grateful they’re sponsoring this year’s Black Friday Summit of 2025. So go give Cubicle to CEO a follow, subscribe to the podcast and show them some love for helping make this free summit possible. And don’t forget,

You can save your virtual seat for the Black Friday Summit of 2025, happening August 26th through 28th. The link will be in the show notes. Now, Mara, Becca, and I will see you there.

Speaker 2 (14:48.942)
What would be your response to a business owner who’s listening in to this conversation and they’re already making an excuse and saying, well, I’m just not a good writer. I’m never going to be able to write a high converting sales copy because that’s not in my wheelhouse.

So if that’s you and you’re listening, what I would say is you actually don’t, I would argue that you don’t have to be as good of a writer as you think to write good sales copy. And it’s because a lot of selling, especially on a website, comes through connecting with someone. So a lot of times what I tell people, and I teach this in videos that go with my website copywriting templates, I teach this in calls, a lot of times what I tell people is to…

start recording your client calls, start recording your discovery calls, listen back to those, listen to the words that you’re using and listen to the words your clients are using. And then quite literally put those words of verbatim on your website. Because writing a website really is, it feels like a one-sided conversation because you’re writing it to no one in particular, but if you can write it to a literal client, customer, whoever that you’ve had, you can really.

narrow it down, you can get super specific, which is what’s gonna sell, and you can take the pressure off yourself. Because it’s not, it’s okay to not approach it like you’re writing a novel, or I feel like a research paper is the framework that a lot of us have. I was just thinking I have not written a five sentence paragraph since graduate school. That’s not how websites work, right? We want one sentence paragraphs on websites. the biggest tip I would say is.

pull from your real life conversations, dictate your copy out loud if you need to, and literally take those words straight out of your own mouth and your clients’ mouths and put them on your sales page.

Speaker 2 (16:36.93)
That’s so simple and straightforward. so listeners, I hope that you take that advice and you not only apply that to your Black Friday strategy, but you are applying this to your landing pages or your lead magnets or any type of copy that you have that is showcasing your services and offers like, that’s just like so simple. And like, I even have a question like simplifying your messaging and

do-it-yourself copy systems, how does applying simplicity as your standard? So how does that apply to copywriting, especially like let’s turn it back to Black Friday, especially for launches like Black Friday, that can feel very chaotic because we all know Black Friday, I’m not going to sugarcoat this listeners, Black Friday is one of the busiest, if not the busiest selling weeks of

November or selling day in November and it feels like it just gets earlier and earlier every year and it just gets louder and louder every

Every year. It’s so much every year.

Yeah, like people are like having Black Friday sales in like August, it feels like and like I just

Speaker 1 (17:47.062)
someone saying Black Friday in July and I was like… Wow!

boy. Well, people are probably thinking, well, dolly, you’re doing the same thing. Well, I’m just trying to help you all think about Black Friday and get ready. how can you, what would you say to help simplify the copywriting aspect for your Black Friday launch without it feeling okay on it?

Yeah, so my biggest advice would be to just say the thing. So one example, and I’m going give you an example. So when it comes to Black Friday, I this is so funny because I love this entire summit, obviously. And I myself, I do not center my fall sale around Black Friday because my birthday is on November 26th and I don’t want to be dealing with all that while I’m busy eating. Well, usually it’s like that. But while I’m busy celebrating my birthday, I don’t feel like dealing with the sale. So in terms of just saying the thing.

Okay.

Speaker 1 (18:40.17)
In my messaging, for example, I literally say that. I say, hey, I know you’re all looking for sales. If one of the sales is what you were looking for, it’s all my stuff. Just so you know, it’s on these dates because my birthday is Black Friday. It usually is like right around Black Friday. I’m like, I just don’t go doing that. Or if you’re experiencing the same loudness and you’re literally saying, there are so many sales here and I don’t know how to get a word in edgewise. Honestly, I think that you can just say that in your copy, in your emails, in your social.

You can just say, it is so loud and here are the reasons that I’m running a sale. Here are the reasons that are like the ways that I can help you with these things. And then you can kind of get into your selling from there, but I would really, especially, I feel like there is like a big trust gap in the entire world right now.

but also in online business. Like it’s just, everyone is a little activated, right? So I think the more we can lean into that actual connection, that being human in our selling and say, I’m also experiencing this. I’m also overwhelmed by Black Friday and all these things, right? If that fits within your brand, I would just say the thing. Just say the thing.

I love it. That’s really good. Amy, a side note. My son’s birthday is November 27th.

my gosh, is if I always whenever I say this, I feel like there’s always someone I say it to who’s like because because we’re Thanksgiving babies. Yes, and everyone knows that we need compliments and cake on Thanksgiving. Like we’ve primed our whole families by this point that we do need. We need our birthdays acknowledged if you’re a holiday.

Speaker 2 (20:21.846)
Yes, and thankfully my son is still at the age where he gets really excited about sharing his birthday over Thanksgiving. like, it doesn’t phase him, but I’m sure when he gets older, he’ll be like, this is kind of a drag, like it’s on your Thanksgiving, I… Yeah, it is what it is. And I love that you brought up that you let your audience know like, hey, I…

not gonna be selling on this day, but I’ll be selling on this day. And I have done sales in the past where I’ve told people in my copy, like, hey, I’m celebrating my son’s third birthday or fourth birthday. And so this is when my sale is gonna be. Everything is for me. I like to set things up and automate as much as possible. yeah, everybody, you have permission to like.

Look at the dates ahead of time and then decide when you want your sales to be and let people know in the copy. Simple.

Yes, yes, you absolutely can. And you can also, if this doesn’t feel like your brand voice, you can find other ways to say it or whatever it is, the thing that you’re trying to say. I think the bottom line that I always tell people is like, especially when it comes to selling, because you’re going to need a high volume of emails, social content, all the things. You can mix it up. Like you can just say the thing. And then if you’re like, I don’t know, that felt really new. I don’t know if I want to do that in every email. Great. You need to write a lot of emails anyway. Write a different one a different way.

I would say let it be a little less serious, too. Let it just be you. Show up. Let it be a little less serious. Don’t let the seriousness or the perceived seriousness stop you from taking action on prepping your sale and having it.

Speaker 2 (22:04.748)
That’s really good. Okay. We’re almost done. I had all these questions for you, but I want to like hone in on two more questions at least. But what would you say to the overwhelmed business owner? A lot of listeners are female online business owners who may feel embarrassed by their offers or sales pages. And they’re thinking about just, what’s the point of doing Black Friday? I’m just going to skip it.

Like this, this is embarrassing. I’m not at this level of so and so I’m not going to what’s the point because it’s so oversaturated. It’s so whatever excuse, what would you say to that business owner right now?

So I actually would start with a question. And it is, what is the worst thing that could happen if you did? Because as someone who has sold products that have flopped, and as someone who has sold products that have done well, and also as someone who sells other people’s stuff for a living, I can say with so much confidence that especially if you are DIY-ing your stuff, you’re writing your own emails, you’re in that phase of business.

It is not a small thing to be so clear, like as someone with limited time, when I say the only thing you stand to lose is like time. Time is also very important, right? Like I don’t want to underscore that, but also like if you have an offer or a product that isn’t currently selling, you feel like a sale would help or that you want more eyes on or all the things. Literally what is the worst thing that can happen from throwing up a coupon code, adding some posts, looking at your sales page, which…

Highly recommend again, even if you’re not doing a Black Friday sale, like I’m always here to look at your sales page. I’m always here to encourage you to look at your sales page. like from setting up some of those things, what do you have to lose? And also what do you have to learn from it? Even if the sale doesn’t pop off in the way that you’re hoping or expecting, or maybe you’re not expecting anything out of it. And maybe that’s what happens. Maybe it doesn’t, but.

Speaker 1 (24:10.604)
I think there’s a lot to be said as a business owner from learning how to flex your muscle of creativity and putting yourself out there. And even if you’re feeling really intimidated, even if you feel like you’re not ready, I think there’s a lot to be gained by trying.

I love that. No, thank you for letting me ask you that. And I hope listeners, you’re listening into that. That’s really good advice right there. Okay, so Amy, I want you to let people know why they should absolutely come to your session at the Black Friday 2025 Summit. What kind of transformation are they gonna walk away with from listening to you?

Yeah, so my presentation is for everyone who learns by doing, learns by examples, which I think is actually most of us. I know, like, I don’t take an abstract concept well. I need to see it. So the main reason, honestly, is the fact that I’m talking about websites and everything comes back to your website. If you are planning a giant sales strategy, if you are planning even a small sales strategy for Black Friday, every single person who buys your offer is going to do it through your website.

I guess I don’t really know how your offer is set up. If it’s not, I’d love to know how you’re selling, but everyone’s making their way back to your website, right? Like it’s the place of the action and it’s where you actually quite literally close the deal. So in your emails, you’re writing, you’re talking to people about all these things. You’re sending them to your website to take the action in your socials. You’re sending people to your website, your stories, your threads, your carousels, your TikToks, your, I don’t even know what else, but everything comes back to your website. So.

My goal is to make it incredibly actionable and simple for you to check five of the biggest things that I see on sales pages that you do need to look at beforehand to get your website ready for Black Friday. And also I’m literally going to show you how it’s done with sales pages that are proven and making sales. I was gonna say year round, some of them are programs that close and open, but we’ll say year round for the sake of it.

Speaker 2 (26:13.166)
I know, I love that. I love that you’re going to give tangible examples. That’s so good. So for listeners, again, as a reminder, this virtual summit is absolutely free to attend. All you have to do is go to BlackFridaySummit.com or you can go to the link in the show notes and there will be a free virtual ticket there. There are over 19 different speakers. So you are going to learn about

what’s working in Black Friday in 2025, because something that worked in 2024 and 2023 is not gonna be the same as 2025. we are trying, and our goal is to bring relevant information and strategies to you, applicable to your small business for 2025. And I’m just so thrilled that Amy said yes to this. So please go sign up and Amy, let listeners know how they can find you

follow you and work with you.

Yes, so you can find me literally everywhere at Hello Co-Creative. It’s my handle on everything except for TikTok because they don’t exist there, but I’m on threads, I’m on Instagram. I do have a business Facebook that I don’t use and my website is just hellococreative.com. So always start with the website since that’s what I just, what you just talking to me about. Yeah.

Well, I will be sure to link everything in the show notes and everyone once you finish listening to this episode Go give Amy a follow and tell her hi and tell her what were some of your favorite aha moments from this episode and Then again, don’t forget to go snag your free ticket to the summit. So Amy, thank you so much again for coming. Thank you, Dolly Of course. All right, everyone you you know the drill. I’ll talk to you all next week

Speaker 1 (27:55.214)
Thank you for having

Speaker 2 (28:01.56)
with a brand new systems and workflow related episode. Have a streamlined and magical week. You amazing muggle you. Bye. Thank you so much for tuning into the systems and workflow magic podcast. For the full show notes from today’s episode, please visit www.systemsandworkflowmagic.com forward slash podcast. Now, if you’re enjoying the podcast, it would mean the world to me.

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Let’s work together one-to-one to craft a strategic launch plan that delivers results. Check out the show notes to apply and see if we’re a great fit. Until next time, go make some strategic workflow magic.