Dolly:
Hello, and welcome back to another Systems and Workflow Magic Podcast episode. I am your systems, workflow, and launching BFF and guide, Dolly DeLong. Today, I am so excited to have a returning guest and one of my excellent best friends on the podcast with me. Mara, do you mind re-introducing yourself to my audience in case people are brand new to the podcast?
Mara:
Yeah, absolutely. Hi everyone, my name is Mara Kuceric, and Dolly and I are excellent business friends, which is super fun. We are the people who have an Instagram DM chat where we talk about babies, kids, and business, but also a lot of random stuff, which is super fun. I’m in Tampa, Florida, and I help entrepreneurs with online courses and digital products. So, when people want to launch something, I’m the person who helps make it happen, helps them follow through, and figures out all of the tech stuff you need to execute and get your thing live so people can pay you money.
Dolly:
I love this. In full disclosure, listeners, since I’ve started helping other business owners with the back end of their launching as their launch strategist and integrator, I feel like I’m always asking Mara questions about either apps or tools. So, she has been such a good resource for me. I am excited for her to be a resource for your buds today! Also, we are doing a small three-part series today and for the next two weeks, where we’ll share more about launching for Black Friday because Black Friday is around the corner. If we know anything, some business owners plan Black Friday at the last minute, sometimes even on Thanksgiving before Black Friday. Mara, why do you think business owners should have a Black Friday plan for 2024?
Mara:
Yeah, so I have two things to think about. First, many entrepreneurs believe they are too small to play on Black Friday. I see that happen a lot. But then what happens is, you see everyone else having a Black Friday sale, and you’re like, “Wait, maybe I should have done that.” So, the first thing is that we have all been brainwashed by Black Friday. I don’t know if that’s good or bad, but we’re all looking for things we’ll buy. I have a list of things I want to look at on Black Friday and see the deal for stuff I already know I might want to buy.
How often do you get this magical day or weekend when people wait to buy? Black Friday is more extended than just Black Friday in online business—typically, you sell from Friday to Tuesday. How often do you get this magical time when people are expecting to spend money and just trying to figure out what they want to buy? People are already primed and ready to buy.
The other important thing is Black Friday; running a sale gives you a lot of business credibility. If people see you have Black Friday sales emails and you’ve put together this wholesale, they think, “Wait, this person is a legitimate business. They’re organized. This product must be good.” It just really gives you some power behind your business. It’s a perfect way to experiment and test out something. And maybe if it sells well, that’s a future launch campaign you do later.
Mara:
I have a lot of clients where we do something for Black Friday. We don’t do a new product, which we’ll probably talk about because I don’t think you should create a new product for Black Friday. But sometimes, we’ll play around with the marketing campaign or what the bonuses are. Or if someone has an online course, we’ll take one module and sell it for Black Friday. I had a client last year, and we did that. It went well. She made multi-five figures—not quite six—then we turned that into a miniature mini-course the following year and sold it all year for her. So, that was an entertaining experiment.
Dolly:
I love that so much. Do you mind me asking what field she teaches or what it was for?
Mara:
Yeah, she’s a photographer and explicitly teaches pricing and licensing for photographers. She has a robust mastermind. It’s six months long, it’s very personal, and you have to apply to get accepted. We took just the pricing module—there’s way more stuff in her mastermind, like how to shoot photos and to get sponsored work as a food blogger—but we took just the pricing module of how to price your pictures and offered it for Black Friday. The setup was super easy. We already had the videos; I duplicated them and made them a miniature course. We sold it, and a lot of people who weren’t ready for a six-month mastermind commitment bought it. It gave them the piece they needed, the money piece, to join the mastermind eventually. It helped a bunch of people. It was also more actionable for people because it was a shorter thing they could implement. We used a ton of language like, “This is only two hours long.” Many people do the opposite, saying, “This thing I’m offering is 15 hours of audio and 15 workbooks.” But people don’t want that. What they want to know is, “How long is it going to take?” They want to be able to do it on a Saturday and see that they can finish it.
Dolly:
Yes, I love that so much. I’m so glad you brought up the point. So, your advice would be, don’t create something new for Black Friday. I know the answer to this, but do you mind sharing with listeners why you recommend not creating something brand new for Black Friday, even if they’re thinking, “In my gut, I think this would be amazing”? Because I know some listeners sometimes act on their gut feelings, but I want case-in-point examples.
Mara:
It’s shiny object syndrome. I want to make something new for Black Friday in my own business. But I’m like, “No, Mara, don’t do it. You’ve seen how it goes.” First, executing something new around Black Friday is hard, especially if you start thinking about it in November. If you start in August or September, you might have time. But setting up something new is so much more work than revising something. If you’re creating something new, you’re making an entirely new sales page and emails, and you must create the checkout. If you’re revising something you already have, you can pop in, edit things, and duplicate an existing page. So, from a time perspective, it’s not intelligent. And usually, people don’t finish creating the thing.
The other thing is that Black Friday is noisy. People are primed to buy. They know there will be sales, and they’ll get many emails about it. So if they see an email that says, “Here’s the thing I’ve talked about all year,” they’re more likely to buy it because they already know the product. If you launch something new, you have to explain a brand new concept to people at a time when emails are the busiest. On Black Friday, people are just skimming for deals, so it’s not the time to explain your new signature course and its backstory.
Dolly:
Yes, I love that point so much. So listeners, if you have something new, Mara and I agree—you should launch it at a different time of the year and use your proven offers for Black Friday. I would also add to this, Mara, that during a Black Friday sale, wouldn’t you love to have those testimonials and case studies? People need proof of concept, like “Why should I buy this?” And having case studies and testimonials about your product could also help your sales.
Mara:
Yeah, it’s enormous. And attention spans during Black Friday are so short. It’s good because people are looking for sales, but you’re also competing with all these other sales. It would be best if you were very targeted in your offer and proved it works. If you’re listening and thinking, “Well, I don’t have a digital product, so I’m just going to click off this podcast,” one way around this is to use something you’re already using in your business. Don’t create something from scratch. If you have a Google spreadsheet that you use personally to manage your podcast or finances, you could sell that. You’re not starting from scratch and don’t have to build an entirely new offer. But it’s essential to sell something that is already in use. Otherwise, you’re just going to sabotage yourself.
Dolly:
I love that. Okay, so I’m just thinking of this question and throwing it at you, Mara, but have you ever had clients who want to buy from them because they get access to them? It’s not a digital product; it’s one-to-one time with them. Have you had a client launch a service during Black Friday that was successful and wasn’t a digital product? Does that make sense?
Mara:
Yes, this makes sense, and it’s a great question. Yes and no. Yes, I have seen it succeed, but there are caveats because launching a service is dangerous. First of all, in an ideal world, it is fantastic, and so many people buy it. I have had a situation where we offered a service and were overbooked—there was no way to fulfill all the one-on-one slots. If you’re offering a coaching call discount or a mastermind, just be clear about your boundaries. It should not be unlimited spots. It’s also hard to explain services because people usually need more information about how the service works, when and where it will happen, and how long they’ll have access. Digital products are more straightforward.
Mara:
But I have had clients where we did something that was an “access” product. It was outside their higher ticket services, like a Voxer coaching day. That could be done anytime, but it didn’t have as much capacity. Another thing that’s been successful is selling an annual pass to your staff. Many say, “For $100 (or whatever price), I’ll give you access to everything I create next year.” You list what you plan to create, and they’ll get access to it. People do this for two reasons: one, it gives them cash flow, and two, accountability. People who sell all-access passes do it because they know it’ll force them to make the course or product they promised.
So, hopefully, that’s helpful. It’s not impossible to sell one-to-one services, but I would do it as more of a group offer or with some flexibility. You could even do something like providing feedback via Loom videos. Say you’re a website designer; you could offer to walk through someone’s homepage and give them ten things to fix. That way, you can execute it anytime, even at midnight, and it doesn’t have to be a Zoom call or something more time-intensive.
Dolly:
I love that so much. Thanks for letting me throw that curveball at you! I currently have a client who sells because of her—people want access to her. She’s put all her knowledge into digital products, but people are like, “Yeah, but we’d rather have you,” which is cool, but we’re trying to figure out how to navigate that for Black Friday. So, I was curious about your thoughts.
Mara:
You can also add bonuses to your digital products. You don’t have to discount for Black Friday. Maybe your value-added strategy combines coaching calls or an accountability group. It could be, “If you buy this course, you’ll get to go through a live cohort of Black Friday buyers,” or “If you buy the course, I’ll give you a one-on-one coaching call.” I’ve seen that work better than starting with the offer of “Buy some of my time.” It’s so different for every business, but selling “access” on a larger scale is usually trickier.
Dolly:
That is so true. I love that you have these little caveats. So, listeners, I hope you’re tuning in because every situation differs. Still, the underlying theme and foundation are to have a plan of action ahead of time, not just throw together a non-plan during the week of Black Friday. That leads me to my next question: I want to hear some horror stories from you about Black Friday.
Mara:
Oh, I have lots! So, I went full-time in my business in 2019. That was the first year I was paying myself a salary. I had quit my full-time job, and I was a baby entrepreneur. Black Friday existed for Walmart and Target—I didn’t know it existed in the online business world. That year, I had a bunch of clients I helped, and I didn’t even think to ask them about Black Friday. It wasn’t on my radar. Then that year, I got so many emails during Black Friday, specifically on Thanksgiving, because people hadn’t considered their Black Friday sale. Then they started getting emails from other business owners, and they thought, “Wait, I should have a sale!” This was an excellent idea, and they emailed me at 6 p.m. on Thanksgiving asking me to implement it. In the first year, I was terrible—I said yes to too many people because I thought, “Yeah, I want to help.” I didn’t need to enjoy Thanksgiving!
I’m much better about it now. I remind clients in August, “What are our Black Friday plans for this year?” That way, we can implement, execute and then take the holiday off. Black Friday is weird—it’s a busy business time, but it’s also a holiday, and you don’t want to be working. So, the first year, I had so many clients who wanted to make a sale, and I was up in the middle of the night trying to set it up. But when you do stuff like that at the last minute, no one in your audience knows what your sale is. You have to tell people ahead of time. I remember that, as a kid, the JCPenney’s catalog was super thick. Do you know what I mean?
Dolly:
Yes! And the toys in the back!
Mara:
Yes! The toys in the back. My parents would get it, and I would take it to the living room and circle everything in hopes they’d get the hint. I was like, “Maybe they’ll buy this for me.” That’s literally how Black Friday works for adults, too. You must tell people, “Hey, this thing will be on sale.” People make lists for Black Friday, whether they realize it or not. So, one thing that happens a lot is that business owners don’t know what their sales are until Thanksgiving, and then on Friday, they say, “Hey, this is on sale!” But no one buys because they weren’t primed for it. They had no idea what the product was, so they ignored the email. They’re already planning to buy other things, and your sale isn’t on their list.
So, after that year, I made sure we planned. Another horror story—tech going wrong. My gosh, yes. Tech will always go wrong; that’s just part of online business. But it will go wrong if you try to throw something together at the last minute without clarity on how your checkout works. One specific horror story: I had a lovely client who posted an Instagram story about her Black Friday sale on Thursday night. That was amazing, except none of us knew about the sale! It was a new product that didn’t exist, and she hadn’t told us. I saw it on her Instagram stories and messaged her, “Hey, we haven’t set this up yet.” We hustled and set it up, but the implementation got messy because she promised coaching calls. She forgot what she had promised, so we had to go back and try to find the story. It was a mess. Don’t do that. Don’t just announce something for sale without thinking it through first. It gets messy, and people don’t have a great experience, even if the product is excellent. If they don’t know how to log in or don’t get emails reminding them, it leaves a bad taste in their mouth. They remember: “I bought something from her and never heard from her again.”
Dolly:
True! And listeners, we’re not saying inspiration is terrible if you’re an inspiration-based person who loves taking action. That’s the beauty of humanity! But there’s also beauty in pairing that inspiration with a good action plan. We’re not asking you to change your personality; we’re just asking you to pair it with mindfulness. Give yourself, what, at least three weeks ahead of time? Even that makes me nervous! You know me, Mara—I like a good 10- or 8-week launch. I’m very intense!
Dolly:
But there is good quality in the outcome, even if you plan it in three weeks.
Mara:
Yeah, and I also want to add that some people might think, “This is going to be so much work. There’s no way I can have a Black Friday sale.” A lot of times, it isn’t that much work. I currently have multiple clients where I can set up their entire Black Friday sale in a day because what we do is pick one product. I highly recommend picking one thing you will sell for Black Friday. Don’t do the thing where you say, “Everything in my shop is 10% off!” People will think, “Cool, I still don’t know what to buy.” I see many people do that, and then no one buys. So, decide for them—have one thing be on sale.
If you pick an existing product, all you have to do is write some emails. It’s not even a ton of emails—you can knock it out in an afternoon or use templates. Plan out some social media content, change the price on Black Friday, make a coupon code, or reroute the sales page. It’s not a ton of work if you plan. Now, if you plan it on Thanksgiving night while you’re trying to take a nap after eating turkey and you’re rushing to get everything set up before 6 a.m. on Friday, then yeah, it’s going to feel like a ton of work, and everything will be on fire.
Dolly:
Yes, yes. I’m so glad you brought that up. This is a perfect segue into—can you tease out what masterclass you, our good friend Becca Reed, and I will co-host?
Mara:
I’m so excited because this was born out of an Instagram DM where Dolly, Becca, and I were talking about Black Friday. We all have clients and different things we’re doing in our businesses, and specifically, we were talking about how this year is so weird. There will be an election, and we will plan our Black Friday sale before we know what’s happening with the election. Like, how weird is that? We’ll be writing many emails in the future, and we have no idea what the landscape will look like. It’s extraordinary. So, we started talking about navigating the messiness of the election and the economy. Everyone’s stressed about money—every business owner and non-business owner I’ve spoken to says, “Groceries are so expensive, I can barely think about Black Friday right now.”
So, we turned that into a free masterclass: Black Friday Trends for 2024. We will talk about navigating the messiness of the election, the economy, and people’s fears and resistance around money. By the way, I’m the weird person who takes notes on what everyone does for Black Friday every year. I track trends, and in August, I start talking to business owners and online business managers about what they’re thinking for Black Friday. So, I get a feel for what will happen, what others are doing, and what the trends are. It helps to know so you can stand out during Black Friday.
Dolly:
I love that! I’m so excited! And listeners, if you’re interested in this free masterclass, we’ll have the link in the show notes. Follow Mara, me, and Becca Reed—we’ll actively discuss it in our stories. It’s coming up on October 2nd at 11 a.m. Central Time. Don’t worry, it’s free, and there will be a replay. But we encourage you to show up live because we have some freebies and goodies for those who attend. We’re excited about it. I’m excited to co-host a free masterclass with two excellent online business friends.
Mara, I don’t know why I’m just thinking this, but I was joking around, thinking I should make my community do something different for my Black Friday sale. Make them show up at my house at 12 a.m. for doorbusters! You know, because growing up, I would go to places like Old Navy and get doorbusters at 3 a.m. I should make my community do that! (I’m joking. You are not showing up at my house at 12 a.m., I promise!)
Mara:
I like Black Friday, but I don’t know if I love the in-store stuff. I’m a frugal minimalist in my actual life, so I don’t buy a ton of things on Black Friday. If I do buy something, it will make me more money in my business. But I am fascinated by how large companies do Black Friday. Dolly, you and I have discussed this before, but the idea of making a catalog previewing your offer and sending it to people is excellent. I know a business owner who mails a little brochure about her Black Friday sale to people. She gets their addresses and only uses them for Black Friday, but it’s enjoyable. People know to expect it now, and they share it on Instagram. I think Black Friday is when you can have a ton of fun and think about how to be like Old Navy! Some say, “My sale will only be from 6 a.m. to 9 a.m..” or, “My sale is going to be happy hour time on Friand we’ll call it the margarita sale!” You can do fun things that you can’t always do the rest of the year.
Dolly:
Yes, that’s so true. Before I married and had children, I loved waking up at 2 or 3 a.m. for the in-person Black Friday sales. That energy is gone now that I have kids. Now I’m like, “I’m going to sleep in until my kids allow me to sleep!” So, I’m not into waking up at 2 a.m. and going in person anymore, but there was a thrill. I remember being so excited about the finds. There was an online business owner I followed, and she had a similar model to a catalog and doorbusters. She had incentives like, “If you’re the first person, you’ll get this,” or “If you’re the fifth person, you’ll get this.” I stayed up until midnight, and my husband was like, “What are you doing up?” I just had to buy it because I might win something! I didn’t win anything, you all, but I still bought from her!
Mara:
It’s so fun to get excited about that stuff. This is probably a good time to mention that if you’re thinking, “I don’t want to ruin my holiday,” you don’t have to. You can have a Black Friday sale that’s not actually on Black Friday. We’ll discuss that in our free masterclass, but I want to tease it now. Many people purposely have Black Friday sales that aren’t on Thanksgiving. Then, on Thanksgiving, they eat a bunch of turkey, don’t check their inbox, and are happy! You can do a Black Friday sale in multiple ways. You can have one that’s not on Black Friday and is stress-free. You can also have a traditional sale from Friday to Tuesday, but you can set up systems so you don’t have to work constantly. It’s possible!
Dolly:
Man, that is my love language—systems, setting up systems! Mara, thank you so much for sharing more about your Black Friday experience with my audience and why, if we we should consider having a Black Friday planhave digital products and services to offer, we sht to encourage everyone to show up for the next two weeks of this episode series about Black Friday. Becca will be joining us for episodes two and three. Don’t forget to also sign up for the free masterclass on October 2nd about the Five Black Friday Trends of 2024. The link will be in the show notes.
Mara, do you mind sharing with people how they can find and potentially work with you?
Mara:
Yeah, absolutely. Everything is on my website, or you can find me on Instagram—it’s Mara Kuceric. I have a funky last name, thanks to my husband. We got married, and it took me five years to change my last name because I thought, “No one will ever be able to spell this!” But here’s a mindset lesson for you: I changed my last name, and it has been 100% fine. I run over a six-figure business with a last name no one can pronounce or spell. It’s Mara, M-A-R-A, Kuceric, K-U-C-I-R-E-K. If you Google search that and spell it wrong, I still come up because I’m the only one. One of the top hits on my website homepage is from people misspelling my last name, and it still comes up!
Dolly:
I love it! When I went into Google Search Console to research keywords, I found that “Dolly” was one of the top searches. And it’s because I live in Tennessee, and it’s because of Dolly Parton. So I should know, I’m not that important because of Dolly Parton!
Mara:
I love it!
Dolly:
Thank you all so much for staying until the very end. Again, don’t forget to grab the links mentioned in this episode and join us on October 2nd for the free masterclass. Until then, have a streamlined and magical week. You are an amazing Muggle, and we will talk to you all next week. Bye!