Dolly DeLong: Hey, and welcome back to another episode of the systems and workflow magic podcast. I am your systems workflow and launching BFF and guide Dolly DeLong. And today I’m really excited to have a new online friend on the podcast today. I have Brooke Jefferson with me and I’m going to let her introduce herself and give her a little bio, but I am so excited.
So excited to have her on. I, um, have been following Brooke. I don’t even know for over a year, at least over a year now. And I listened to her podcast. I’ve like really, come to know and like and admire Brooke. And so it’s so fun to have her on the podcast. And, as soon as she, comes on to introduce herself, we are going to dive into a topic that many family photographers.
And even other like service based business owners struggle with. And that is pricing yourself profitably and how to actually price yourself as a family photographer. But before we dive into that juicy topic, Brooke, welcome to the podcast.
Brooke Jefferson: Thank you so much, Dolly. I’m excited to be here. And I love hearing that people listen to my podcast because as a podcaster yourself, you know, that we can’t see that. We don’t know who listens unless they tell us. So it’s always such a huge honor to hear that people listen to the podcast. Uh, my name is Brooke Jefferson.
Like Dolly said, I am a wife, a mom to two. My kiddos are 11 and 8. I literally cannot believe that. I started this business when my oldest was about 4 or 5 months old. So she has literally been by my side for this entire thing. We live in a teeny tiny cow town in Oklahoma. There are more cows than there are people.
And I always say, I used to say I live in a one. Stoplight town, but they took out the stoplight about two years ago. So I can’t even say that anymore So yes, so I am your your small town a family photographer I know what it’s like to build a profitable business in a teeny tiny town I know what it’s like to have to price yourself how to find people out of your market all of those things So I’m excited to really dive into this topic of pricing I know it brings up a lot of emotions and so hopefully we can calm some of that today
Dolly DeLong: I’m really excited. I will, I’ll want to give a shout out to the family photographer advanced blueprint summit. Brooke is one of the amazing speakers for the summit and it is coming up. if you are listening to this live, it’s coming out this month as in March, 2025. And I would love for you to join, especially if you are a family photographer, or you’ve.
Nailed in your posing, you’ve nailed in your editing, and now you just need to nail in your systems and workflows and just business operations in general. And so I’m really excited to have over 20 different speakers who are going to talk about this specifically to family photographers, because you all know, I love systems and workflows.
And now that I get a merge, my love of systems and workflows with family photography, like this, the summit is going to be. Chef’s kiss. I’m so excited. And I am a very Excited. You all know, like I use the word excited a lot, but I genuinely am so excited for you all to learn from Brooke today. because this is something right before I hit record with Brooke, I was sharing with her as a family photographer myself, this is something that I struggled with.
And sometimes like I’m always second guessing myself at the back of my mind, am I pricing myself appropriately? Or maybe Profitably would be the word I’m looking for because, thankfully I do have a great bookkeeper. Shout out to Anna Marie. She’s been on the podcast before, but not everyone has a bookkeeper or an Anna Marie in their back pocket.
And so because of her I was able to know how to price myself profitably for Nashville, like where I live. but again, not everybody has a bookkeeper. That resource and I feel like so many family photographers are just like throwing spaghetti, throwing numbers at the wall, Brooke. And so, this kind of leads into my first question for you.
Like, why do you think pricing is one of the biggest hurdles for family photographers?
Brooke Jefferson: Oh such a good question. Okay, I think the number one if I had to nail it down Is that we are so close to our art and to the work that we produce We don’t know how to price ourself. We because we try to tie it to Charge your worth and i want to be really clear. I’ve always hated that statement because truly We should be charging millions if we were going to charge our worth just because our worth is really it’s priceless And so I don’t go by that mantra I teach to, you know, really creating profit pricing that has to do with your lifestyle, your goals, your niche, your location.
Loved that you said that because yes, it does matter. A photographer in Hawaii is going to be very different than the market with a photographer in small town, Oklahoma. Like you can’t, we can’t do that. So that’s the biggest reason I think is one. We don’t know what we don’t know, right? That makes so much sense, especially for us who are just, we pick up a camera and we have a business one day.
That’s really a lot of our stories. And then the second part, like I said, we are so close to our art that we can’t see past it. So we have all these emotional ties when it comes to pricing and it makes it really, really hard. So I think those are the two biggest hangups right there for family photographers.
Dolly DeLong: Oh, thank you. and thank you again for pointing out like, yes, location. It matters like where you are as a family photographer and, family photographers, small business owners listening in. If you’re like, I’m just going to turn this off. Cause I feel like I hear this all the time, but I really want you to tune in because you will walk away with some action steps and homework for you.
And I’m really hoping by the end of this episode, you’ll know or at least have more confidence in how to price yourself and how to, how to look at at least one of your packages and see if it’s I will speak also to the photographers who feel the frustration of when you open up Facebook groups and there are mom groups and they’re like, I just want to hire.
I was literally on in a mom group this morning, Brooke, and I was just checking the mom groups and one, Okay. Bye. Bye. person was requesting, fine art maternity photos, but not at the fine art price. they just wanted it, but they wanted it for very cheap. And I was like, uh, this is why, so many people undersell themselves and so many people, don’t know how to price themselves because, there is that type of communication on Facebook, for example.
So, I don’t know how you feel about that.
Brooke Jefferson: Yeah, well first of all, I always tell my audience, Facebook groups are not where your ideal clients are hanging out. That’s a whole nother episode, but just take that for what it is. If that’s the little nugget you needed to get out of there, get out, just get out of there. Here’s why I think we see those people.
Post and it sends us into a spiral. Oh my gosh, I’m competing with all of these super cheap photographers, etc, etc. And we and we go down this mindset spiral. The reason that we see so many posts like this because people are just simply uneducated. And I mean, specific to the value and what goes into photography people, they don’t know.
They don’t know that you’re spending thousands of dollars on equipment alone, let alone all of your subscriptions and the time and the travel and all of the things. And so that is where I think us as an industry. It first it starts with us charging for profit That’s the first step which we’re going to get into that but then from there if every person is doing their part And they truly are charging Profitably for themselves, right?
Then I think as an industry we can have this ripple effect where now all together Right? We are now teaching and educating people, here’s what actually goes into it, and here’s the difference between, sure, you can go get cheap photography, 50 bucks, 100 bucks, here’s what you’re going to get. It’s very different, and I think people do start to figure this out.
I know this wasn’t an original question, but one thing I want to throw in here just to show you guys, real life, Uh situations I have plenty of competition competition i’m doing quotes here of photographers That the amateur photographers beginner hobbyists, whatever that charge way less than I do And they do get a lot of bookings, but you know what happens their people eventually start to see oh brooks work versus their work and I don’t say that as like Oh, i’m so much better.
It’s not an ego thing. It’s just I’ve put the time, the effort, the education into, you know, operating a real business. They eventually come and book me and pay my price. So I hope that encourages you to stay in your lane that people have to go through their own experience before they open their eyes and they realize, Oh, wait a second.
I see the difference.
Dolly DeLong: Yeah, I will second that, Brooke. That’s actually happened to me through the years, and I have noticed,that certain families will hire this other photographer that I know, and then they, and they’re hobbyists, which is fine. And then they have come back and hired me again and yeah again like to your point it’s because like i’ve invested so much time energy effort in growing this business and growing thethe look and the art in the form of what I want to produce so I totally resonate with what you said okay.
I know i’m gonna throw this out to brooke to you to share with listeners Kind of like to set up the pricing, but this is more of the emotional side but can you name a time off the top of your head where you? You had a client who told you this session Was either like so priceless or worth every penny or because it brought such and such like I’ll give my example And then this gives you a little time to think so one of my sessions For one of my clients like dear clients.
They ended up moving to another state, so that’s why I don’t work with them like on a regular basis, but I when I started working with their family, they invited their grandfather to the session to take photos with them Little did I know and I think they kind of knew but they didn’t really know like that.
He was about to die Um, he died within a few months after that session from a tumor and they like always tell me like we cherish those photos like we Love that You, you took, we invested in you. You took those photos and they’re like everywhere. And so that’s one of the main reasons why I love doing what I do as a family photographer is because the family unit is so important to me and you just never know what tomorrow brings.
take the photos and like print the photos and I don’t even offer in person sales for my photography business they just like printed off the photos somewhere, but the whole thing is like they they understood like Maybe we should like get some family photos done and now like they are so glad they did and this happened y’all this happened like almost Seven years ago and they still talk about it
Brooke Jefferson: I have chills because I don’t think it’s a coincidence that you asked me this. So one of the reasons that I got into photography Is that I have lost two younger brothers both two very tragic situations One of my brothers was six and the other one was 18 very young to lose your life and that just absolutely changed me as a person and I live my life very differently than most people because I think that’s why I Am fearless in some ways.
I still have fear in others, but I think that’s why i’m never afraid To, to, to get on an Instagram story and try and impact someone’s life that day. And the reason being is because I know what that’s like. All you have left are your memories and your photographs. And there are days, and I remember in, you know, the beginning of my grief journey, all I wanted to do was look back on videos and pictures with me and my brothers.
And so, that has spilled over. That is, that is probably the backbone to why I have never quit photography in the last, this was my 11th year. This is why we’re going 11 years strong is because things will happen. And so my specific example is there in my very small town, I had a young girl. I did her senior pictures.
Shortly after that, they found out that she had a brain tumor and she battled that for as long as she possibly could. I think it was a year or two. And they used my photos in her obituary and on the funeral. I remember walking in and them handing me that and my photo was on the front page with, you know, with her name and stuff on it.
And man, like, I have it hanging up. And this has happened multiple times for me, and I think that’s what we need to remember. Like, yes, sure, it’s about, like, the cute in between moments, and the babies, and the kids, and stuff. And we can have a lot of fun doing this, but also, just like you said, we don’t know what’s going to happen.
And so, these personality filled images that we are able to document for families might be the very last thing that they have of their loved ones. And this does tie back into pricing because in order for you to create these you need to be profitable and sustainable, but also remember the impact and the value that you bring.
Dolly DeLong: Yes. Yeah. And we’re not trying to be like wet blankets right now to you all. We’re just like sharing our, our whys and just like what has impacted us to continue to pursue the art of photography, family photography. And, Brooke, like the very similar situation happened to me. Like one of my friends unfortunately passed away or like earlier last year.
When I walked into the, her funeral, it was a picture I had taken of her like years ago. And her mom and her husband were like, you took this picture of her dolly, like on our photo shoot. And I was like, it, like I had to like, it was, I might start crying. So anyways, we’re just going to move on. But yes, the impact of photography on people’s lives like that, to me, It’s just so deep So let’s move on to getting to the heart of this topic. how does one begin with knowing how to price themselves profitably as a family photographer?
Brooke Jefferson: So where you’re going to start is you’re going to collect Some information, and I’m going to teach this in depth, uh, at the summit. So if you’re listening and you’re hanging on to every word that we’re saying, and you might be visual, I’m very visual. You guys are going to get an entire presentation that’s very visual.
And so if you need that, definitely come to the summit, but a couple of things that you’re going to want to write down or gather up is. One, what is your availability? what is your expectation for the session, right? Like how many sessions a month do you want to shoot is basically what I’m saying as a family photographer.
So that’s the first thing you need to look out because that’s very important. The second thing is if I said, Hey, what is your profit goal? You need to be able to tell me not, Oh, I mean, this would be nice. And I I’m on strategy calls all the time with pricing and they do this to me. And I’m like, Okay, so is it, is it 1, 000 a month or is it the 4, 000 a month that you’re really trying to hit?
And you have to nail that down. And what I mean by profit, I don’t mean revenue, cause that’s gonna factor in, we’re gonna figure that number out through the formula. But, what is your profit goal? If you are going to write a check to yourself from your business, again, hopefully, I know all the bookkeepers out there are gonna be so excited that I say this, but hopefully, you have separate accounts.
You have your personal account and your business account. So how much are you wanting to transfer over every single month to yourself? Right? That’s a real paycheck. That’s how we run a business. And so whatever that number is, you’re going to need that as well. And then of course, we need to look at your expenses.
So what are you, what do you need to at minimum pay for to keep your lights on? So even if you don’t have a studio, you do have a business and there are certain things that we have to pay for no matter what, regardless if we have a session or not. Where I see people make mistakes or factor in too many costs, because I do think that there is a time and a place for too many costs.
I don’t necessarily think you should be investing in a client closet or extra props or all these extra things until you turn a profit in your business. So we don’t even need to factor that in. I don’t want to see, oh, an education expense when you have not even had a successful session yet, because that, that is going to get you into debt.
And we don’t want to do that. So you’re just looking at things like we all have in Adobe. Subscription, right? A Lightroom, a Photoshop. We have to pay for that no matter what. You are also going to have like other things, your gallery hosting site, maybe, maybe a website. If you already did the website, you’re paying for it.
That’s already what you’re factoring in. So just look at it that way. What do I absolutely have to pay for? What can I cut? Maybe what you don’t need yet. And then look at what those expenses average out to. So like for me, and I want to give this caveat, this is where you people who want visual, you need to come watch my presentation because we’re getting a little jumbled here, but some of us, we pay like a yearly subscription for something rather than a monthly subscription.
Just take the total and divide it by 12 and add it into your monthly expense. It’s all you need to do to make sure you’re on the right track. So those are some key elements of what you will need. And then in the summit, I’m actually going to walk you through the whole, uh, slide by slide profit formula of where you’re going to plug these numbers in and, and how you’re going to reach a base price and what that means for you.
But that’s what it looks like to at least get started.
Dolly DeLong: I love that so much. And, Listeners, if you want like a behind the scenes of okay, if you, if you’re like a nosy Nelly, which I am sometimes, I’m so curious about things, I have started this series on YouTube where I share my expenses for my family photography business and my online business because, keep in mind, I’m running two very different businesses and there are two very different types of expenses and so I share, I like literally started this process in January and I’m like, I really think people like this.
So if you want to be a nosy Nellie, feel free to find my YouTube channel. I’ll link it in the show notes and then you can see, okay, what is like her photography side of her business look like? And kind of like Brooke, I, have yearly subscriptions and then I do monthly and I have had to like hone it in.
Thanks to my. Bookkeeper for helping me like be like pull my feet to the fire and be like is this necessary Dolly? Or is it like is it just fluff is it because you are comparing yourself to others? and so she’s helped me hone in my expenses so much and You all because of this Uh last year she sent me my like end of year 2024 recap for my books and she was like you Have made seven thousand more dollars in your business because of everything you cut and like how you ran your business and so If you are meticulous you all like you will save money so you can put it towards Your profitability so it does work you all i’m i’m sharing my own Money testimony.
Anyways, Brooke, okay, so I’m gonna repeat back what you shared So you’re sharing with the listeners like you need to know when your availability is like because for me I’ll give my example. I am a mom to two as well, but I have two young ones. I have a two year old and a six year old. Um, so I am not available like all week nights where, when most photographers are just like on a whim, they just go out and they’d shoot whenever.
So I have to know like exactly when my husband can watch the boys or when the sitter can watch the boys. So. Realistically, my availability is Wednesdays and Saturdays. That’s when I shoot. And I like to take Sundays off. Like, I’ve definitely, like, gone in and I’ve been like, Okay, that means I can shoot maybe up to eight times a month.
And if I use that time wisely, I can put in some mini sessions in that. because I don’t want to, fill up my calendar so much where I have no time and energy left. So I also want to like second what Brooke said, like when you’re looking at your availability and your like expectations for the month, also factor in your, your energy levels.
so, because like how, if you could do, 30 sessions in a month, but like how much time would that actually take away from like your family unit if you have a family or a loved one or spouse or whatever and so sometimes it’s not worth it. Like the payout is not worth it for me with the time. So I don’t know what your thoughts are on that.
Brooke Jefferson: Yeah. I love that you shared yours. Um, my sessions are like eight to 10 per month, usually on average, of course you’re going to have your slower months. And I. I want to point that out because I think this is really important when we do the pricing for profit formula. we’re just getting average numbers.
Okay. There will be some months where you will be hustling like hello, October, and you might do 15 sessions just because it’s, it’s just the fall. And you may be, you know, for me in the month of June, I don’t take as very many sessions because we’re usually on vacation a lot. A lot of trips happen in June, a lot of laying by the pool happens.
And so I just double my work on a different month. So keep that in mind as well. This is just an average. so yes, my kids are older now. They’re old enough to where like they can stay home, like either with my husband or they can actually, I take my daughter with me a lot to capture behind the scenes photos.
So there’s a fun, there’s a fun way to incorporate your older kids, but yeah, they’re old enough now where I’m not having to, you know, chase down childcare, they can handle themselves for an 10 miles away. It’s not a big deal. the other thing that I was going to say that you started getting into this and It’s important to point out with the availability topic.
Some of you are burning yourselves to the ground with trying to have shoots all of the time and you are telling yourself, well, I’m making really good money, but then I look at your calendar and I’ve seen your calendar before, not yours, Tali, but just like a generic photographer that’s burned out. I’ve seen their calendar.
Where they are gone 15 to 20 times a month and they’re charging like less than 200. Shoot That’s not profitable. I don’t care how we you know How we explain that it’s not profitable and I could explain why like you’re going to hit burnout So fast and then you are going to resent this business throw in the towel either quit it or you’re going to be You know, what do I do?
And that’s really where systems So I love that Dolly talks about systems because systems are the backbone of your business and you need to have them more than just your pricing system. You need to have systems in general.
Dolly DeLong: yes. I love that. So I know that you are going to go more into depth with pricing for profit, but you gave a lot of good points like looking at your availability, looking at your profit goals, not revenue, knowing what your expenses are, and then you are going to share more of the profit formula in the slides.
But for listeners now, like if you had to give one actionable tip for family photographer, struggling to figure out the pricing, like they’re listening in, they’re like, I just, I just want to walk away with one actionable step. What would you share with them right now to do to lay a better groundwork for their business?
Yes.
Brooke Jefferson: Hopefully by the time this airs, though, we’re within a couple of weeks, if not a week, and you guys are going to be able to get all of it. One thing I want to say though about the summit, and then I promise I’ll give you the actionable step. But I’ve always taught pricing for profit.
However, I’ve never taught it specific to family photographers only. And so I’m throwing in some extra goodies and examples in this presentation that is going to really help you as a family photographer be able to take everything that I’m saying forward. And apply it to your own business. So I just wanted, I wanted to say that because that’s why I was so excited when Dolly asked me to do this topic because I was like, yes, okay, I can add an extra stuff.
This is going to be so great. Now for your actionable step though, the, for those of you, you’re, you’re listening this far in, this must mean something to you and I don’t want you to wait to change your prices, you know, right now in your gut, if you are undercharging and Then now you feel all the emotions.
what’s going to happen when I raise my prices? Am I going to lose all of my clients? Like, how do I actually, you know, increase my prices and then get bookings for that? Number one, your feelings are going to lie to you all day because you are stepping out of a zone that feels comfortable to you. And I’m asking you to increase your prices and go to the next zone.
Now by increasing your prices, I don’t want you to jump from a hundred dollars photographer to immediately a $500 a session photographer, because you will make it harder for you to book clients. What I want you to do is can you raise your prices by a hundred dollars, maybe even 150, just to get you right one step closer to that goal, and then see who comes with you.
The other thing that I want to give you as an action item is you are going, you are probably going to lose some of your clients, some of your past clients, right? That’s okay. They, they’re, they’re going to stay in their realm and they’re going to continue to look for cheap photographers. Maybe that’s all they can afford.
That is okay. All right. You now have to start talking to your ideal clients, the people who are going to say yes to you in this pricing range, no matter what. So maybe you need to uplevel your messaging and the way that you market. That’s a huge, huge thing. And I’m going to talk about some of that as well at the summit, but maybe right now, the only marketing you’re doing for your sessions is on social media.
I want you to now go, okay, well, my ideal client who’s going to pay me. Hundreds of dollars more probably doesn’t spend 24 seven on her phone. She’s not hanging out in the Facebook groups. Definitely not the buy, sell trade groups. She is probably more intentionally spending her time at her job at home raising her kids.
so when she wants something, when she’s looking to hire someone, who does she ask? Where does she go? She probably searches on Google. She probably looks on Pinterest for inspiration. She’s probably asking her friends and family and coworkers. And so you have to figure out a way to break out of your marketing box and do something different.
My favorite saying, and this drives everything I do in my business, if nothing changes, nothing changes, right? It’s the definition of insanity. You can’t just raise your prices and do nothing different and expect to get booked. You have to do something different, especially when it comes to your marketing and the way that you’re getting in front of your ideal clients.
Dolly DeLong: Oh, preach it. I hope you all I don’t know. I don’t even know what the phrase is. I hope you all rewind and listen to that clip over and over again. I will second with what Brooke just shared with you all. Like, the whole reason I started this podcast Like years ago is because I just truly believe in my gut and my heart and my mind and everything like Systems will help you on the back end of your business to run not just a profitable business But a fun business so you don’t lose steam and you don’t burn out but in order to Start those systems.
It takes one baby step at a time, one system at a time. And so that’s why I encourage listeners, take one baby step, one action step to implement one system. You don’t have to figure it out all right now. That’s impossible. That’s like drinking out of a fire hydrant and then being like drenched and overwhelmed even more.
But I want to encourage you, like one of the reasons why. I decided to do the summit is because one, I still am so passionate about teaching creatives about systems and workflows and SOPs because it impacts the way you market. It impacts the way you do your SEO. It impacts the way, like, How you communicate your brand with other your ideal client.
It’s all a system. It’s all a cog That’s that’s this is how I look at it And so when you come to the summit you are going to be introduced to different systems and workflows like more advanced tips and strategies On how to start incorporating this in the back end of your business. And yes It will be very overwhelming because there’s so many different types of advanced strategies So I want you to look at the schedule and figure out like, okay this is what I want to hone in on and the great thing is you will have the opportunity to purchase It’s like a ticket to watch all of the summit presentations on your own time.
But if you’re able to, come and take time out March 25th through 28th and come and learn about different advanced tips and strategies, and decide like what That’s it. Steps you want to take in 2025. What systems do you want to start implementing? And honestly, like for me, I like to focus in on one or two systems at a time.
Um, because it’s very manageable and, but I just want to encourage you. You don’t have to have this all figured out, but. If you don’t change anything, nothing like what Brooke said, like nothing’s going to change at all. so Brooke, thank you so much as we wrap up. Thank you so much for coming on.
This was fun just to chat about. I didn’t realize we would take so many turns and sharing our personal stories. Like it was, it was fun learning about like why, one of the reasons why you started family photography and being a photographer in general. But I want you to share with listeners like how they can stay connected with you and work with you and learn more from you.
And, again, as a reminder, if you want to continue to learn from Brooke, she will be a speaker at the Family Photographer Advanced Blueprint Summit. And you can get your free ticket in the show notes. But if you are wanting to get to know Brooke even more, Brooke, how can people connect with you?
Brooke Jefferson: Yes, thank you again. This is such a fun conversation and I love the twists and turns. Those are the best types of conversations So, you’re listening to a podcast right now And so the first place I want to invite you to come to is to my podcast It’s called the book more photography clients podcast I share lots of photography topics mainly with marketing and business strategy You So head on over there.
We also have some really fun interviews that are airing at the time you’re hearing this. So come on over, listen to those. And then the other place that I would love to connect with you and hear your biggest takeaway is over on Instagram. And my Instagram username is Brooke Janae photo. So, and I’m sure you can find it over on doll.
If you can’t find me, go search her followers type in Brooke. I’ll be right there.
Dolly DeLong: Oh, I will make sure to link everything in the show notes, so I’ll make it easy peasy for you guys but thank you again listener for listening all the way through And if you found any of this helpful, like if you experience like some sort of aha moment Please feel free to dm me or brooke on instagram and let us know What helped you out and then of course come to the summit because she is laying out like she is continuing this topic so maybe use this episode as your pre rec homework of gathering everything all the materials She told you about and then that way you’re ready to take those next action steps So until then listener stay streamlined and magical.
You amazing muggle you, and I will talk to you all next week with the brand new systems and workflow magic podcast. Bye.
